#144 - 30 to 50 percent faster with AI? What that means for your Amazon business

Joubin Rahimi

Wonderful that you're joining us again for a new episode of insights! My name is Joubin Rahimi, and today, with Michael Hartmann, we have one of the experts when it comes to marketplaces. Michael, great to have you here.

Michael Hartmann

Hello, thank you very much for the invitation to sit on the couch.

Joubin Rahimi

Absolutely, but tell us two or three sentences about yourself, why you're the marketplace expert.

Michael Hartmann

My name is Michael Hartmann, 51 years old. I've been in sales for more than 20 years, the last 14 of which in e-commerce and the Amazon space. I've supported a great many different companies and categories. Gardena, Sony, and most recently CenterSoft in the entertainment sector, with revenue responsibility of over 100 million – I believe that's actually already one of the larger ones in Europe. And it's always been great fun for me.

Joubin Rahimi

And we actually met at an event format like this. We got to know each other in the ECC environment, and then we spoke to each other very often, and it was always brilliant. So I first want to make the case for meeting other people and having regular in-depth conversations. That's why I'm glad you have the time so we can talk here. Marketplace – well, Amazon is over 50 percent of B2C revenue, probably 55, 56 – now you know better than I do.

Michael Hartmann

Actually it's 50, roundabout over 60 percent, that now already go through the marketplace, i.e. through the seller business, and it's simply also an important revenue pillar for Amazon, because of course through the fees they get a large share of profits and

Joubin Rahimi

And actually, as a retailer, you can't really get around it, even in B2B business – particularly in the C-parts area, Amazon is a serious player, or is it not like that in B2B? Just to give us an idea.

Michael Hartmann

From my perspective, you can indeed try, but you have to be where the customer is. If you want to be where the customer is, Amazon is simply a major touchpoint in this customer journey, as they say. And so it's probably important for every retailer, every B2B provider, to be there too, at the end of the day, depending on which product you offer or which brand you represent. In most cases, your brand or your product is already on Amazon. That means it's no longer a question of whether or not, but a question of how you do it.

Joubin Rahimi

And this how is exciting. Here at the ECC Forum we have some retailers who really run the full range and can play every key. Many in the B2B space are still at a completely different point. What would you say a B2B retailer should do to be able to benefit from the marketplace? It's not just a case of listing something and that's it.

Michael Hartmann

You can try that, but at the end of the day it really comes down to fixed basics. That means, how can you achieve operational excellence? That means you have to make sure your product is constantly available, you have to have your logistics processes under control, you have to ensure that all the customers who want to buy your products can always access them. Next, you have to make sure your product is well presented – what packaging is in bricks-and-mortar retail, content is in online retail, meaning imagery, video material, comparison tables. Simply explain to the customer as best as possible why this product best fits their need, and you've already won a lot. And the last point is, of course, the price has to fit too. That means you have to make sure that you actually earn your money, Amazon earns its money, but the customer also really thinks: great, good product, fits my need, and it also fits my wallet – then I'll buy.

Joubin Rahimi

We've all – B2B people already have a webshop, don't they, so surely it's just another feed. But that's not the case, is it?

Michael Hartmann

Well, at the end of the day, selling on Amazon is already a challenging task in itself.

Joubin Rahimi

Is different.

Michael Hartmann

It's also not just simply another channel, but really a task you have to take on, one you also have to dedicate resources and budget to. And of course many have their own webshop, but that costs money too, because you have to somehow get customers onto that webshop from outside. And Amazon simply has such huge traffic, such organic traffic within itself – you have to consider, well over 100 million people a month go on Amazon, so an incredibly large visibility platform, which even leads to companies that don't sell a single product on Amazon still having a presence there. Robinson Club advertises its holidays, Mercedes once advertised its E-Class there, even though they don't sell a single car, and they all make use of the maximum reach that Amazon can really generate today.

Joubin Rahimi

Logistics, you said earlier, you need to have your logistics processes under control. Everyone will say that, I have my act together, I'm already shipping. But Amazon has some special requirements on top. I know from my past that there was a special arrangement for toys around Christmas, for example. But generally, if you want to offer Amazon Prime, you also have to,

Michael Hartmann

 You have to be able to deliver quite a lot there. Above all, you have to be very fast, order comes in, has to be shipped the same day, so that you can actually get this Prime badge, there are indeed a few hurdles you have to clear. But that of course also means the customer trusts you and your platform. On the other hand, you can also go the other way and say, I don't want to be the one shipping it, then you just send it to the Amazon warehouse and Amazon takes over the entire logistics process for you. That can also be a solution. So this typical FBM, Fulfilment by Merchant, meaning you ship it yourself, or FBA, Fulfilment by Amazon, are also the two options.

Joubin Rahimi

That's already a topic you can't just answer off the cuff. And once you've decided on one or the other, or on both together, that probably also depends on,

Michael Hartmann

You can run any of them, you can even actually be available on Amazon as a Vendor, depending on what market size or revenue volume is behind it, and as a Seller in a hybrid form. And even then you can say, okay, I'll do FBM or FBA. That's possible too.

Joubin Rahimi

Now we're actually at the basics for everyone doing Amazon, that's nothing exciting. And now Agentic AI comes round the corner, Agentic Commerce. How does that change, from your point of view, the balance between platforms? Is Amazon dying, or is it growing right now?

Michael Hartmann

Well, at the end of the day I don't think Amazon will die that quickly. You can see in America, Amazon is currently leading the legal dispute against Perplexity. They wouldn't do that if they were totally relaxed about it. Perplexity was one of the first to integrate the shopping option into their AI. That was a bit of the trigger, and they're now trying, for the most part, to shield off their data a little so these agents can't just crawl this information indiscriminately. At the end of the day, though, they do it themselves too. Amazon also buys products for you in the US on platforms that wouldn't otherwise be available. There's an example with Adidas, meaning I want a particular Adidas shoe. Amazon goes and takes the content of that shoe from Adidas's webshop and puts it up on its own platform. I can press the buy button. Amazon buys it from Adidas and has it shipped straight to your home. So what we accuse them of on one hand, they're happy to do themselves on the other.

Joubin Rahimi

But Shopify has just backed off for now. They said, we're building this shopping feature. No, no, ChatGPT. ChatGPT said, we're shutting the shopping feature down again.

Michael Hartmann

Right, they've taken a small step back for now. But I still think there's a contest or a race among the big players, and ChatGPT will certainly be part of that, but also Google, especially with the new protocol that's made sure these agents can communicate excellently with each other and with platforms, and with that has started an attempt to create a standard. And I think the big players include Google, include ChatGPT. But it also includes Amazon, who have now, for example, invested a whole lot of money in ChatGPT.

Joubin Rahimi

Quite funny

Michael Hartmann

I only heard this at the weekend, hadn't really registered it before, but Gemini is actually launching on all iPhones in 2026. So your Apple phone gets software from a competitor of Apple's. I find that quite exciting.

Joubin Rahimi

Siri, finally a proper Siri,

Michael Hartmann

Finally a proper Siri answer. Exactly, that's actually something I'm still waiting for from Amazon too. We had a discussion earlier about Rufus, when I ask my Alexa at home things, a lot of not-great answers come out, and with ChatGPT I feel like I can ask anything and it answers with epic breadth and depth. That's quite impressive, but Alexa lags behind a bit there, and Siri

Joubin Rahimi

Yes, even more so. You can't really do a web search with a phone, I don't want that.

Michael Hartmann

At the end of the day, AI is currently moving at a speed that impresses everyone a great deal and at the same time sometimes intimidates them a bit too, because of course it overtakes things in split seconds. We're seeing LLMs now develop not on a yearly or monthly cycle any more, but it feels like a weekly cycle already, generating images is easier than ever, or videos can be shot today, seemingly all over the world, without actors having to fly all over the world. So it's really quite something.

Joubin Rahimi

Actually, if I say I want to build an Amazon business, it should now be a lot easier, because I can also use AI, write up concepts, how should my team look? How should one build an organisational structure? Then you just need, only need is completely the wrong way to put it, the right people who then continue to oversee all of that, coordinate it and bring the drive.

Michael Hartmann

So AI does of course already help you in part within the company. You can have SEO-optimised texts, you can have content optimised, you can have images created, for example of a stuffed toy that's sitting here on the sofa, and then afterwards it's sitting on a bed, so that you

Joubin Rahimi

Have such a unique image. That's what it's about, isn't it?

Michael Hartmann

Well, there are ways to take a lot of work off your hands there, do it very quickly and, above all, very cost-effectively. Many couldn't afford expensive photoshoots for certain products at all, and even Amazon offers this. Amazon is currently trying, on a pilot basis, to optimise product content. That is, on a pilot basis they're already going a step further, optimising product content via AI, and they then suggest that to the manufacturer as such. Do you agree with this text or not, and even if you don't respond within, I think it was a two-week deadline, if you don't say there, no, I don't like that, then they just go ahead and implement it without asking further. That might even be a help for small businesses sometimes, but for a great many, even larger, businesses that's definitely not a good development, because of course they say: I have a very strong interest in it matching my CI and the quality with which I want to present my product.

Joubin Rahimi

The change to that. But how would you build it up? So if I were managing director now and I wanted to do something with Amazon, I sell electrical goods and we're not doing anything with it yet, but we have a webshop. What would you say one should invest in terms of money and people to set a starting point there, and what expectations can one have?

Michael Hartmann

Expectations are of course difficult, it depends a lot on the category, on the product segments and also on the development of the respective channel. But I think it can be helpful to get help from outside at the beginning. So not immediately try to provide all the resources within your own company, but there are quite a number of very, very good agencies on the market that can help you very well with these first steps, and then also with the first hurdles, contract drafting, everything that needs doing. The second way would of course be to really bring in a dedicated resource or more, to say, okay, I'm building up the know-how and the resources internally within the company. As I said, at the beginning I think, depending on company size and monetary possibilities, I would probably tend to first buy in knowledge from outside, then build up the knowledge within the company, in order to later say, now I can do it alone, because I've overcome the first hurdles that were perhaps unfamiliar to me.

Joubin Rahimi

So it's quickly six figures

Michael Hartmann

It can become

Joubin Rahimi

When I think about employees and so on, that is.

Michael Hartmann

Ah yes, of course, as I said, depending on how many employees you need, you definitely need, well, to really play gladiators with Amazon in every respect, you usually need at least one person. Once it gets going and you say, okay, I need someone else who knows about logistics, or a dedicated back-office person who coordinates orders and the flow of goods and forecasts and coordinates the supply chain, then there's the topic of marketing. That means if I now start really driving up traffic there, because my products should be more visible, that also needs its own know-how. But again, I think before you hire 3, 4, 5 people, I'd first look at how I can build something small, cook on a low flame, take my first tentative steps, which country subsidiaries are interesting for me, for example. Today I can actually start on Amazon relatively quickly in other countries too, not just in Germany, and there I think I'd also like to get support and knowledge from outside again at the beginning

Joubin Rahimi

But that's exciting too. You say marketing comes in again, logistics comes in. So if I take care of this channel, it runs through a large part of the company. If you do FBA, then you also have a completely different type of billing. I think this pick and pack also costs extra, that's then five bookings for one shipment. Accounting mustn't enter that by hand.

Michael Hartmann

Yes, there are agencies that thankfully help with that too. But actually, finance together with Amazon accounting is always a pain point, you just have to say that clearly. Amazon also deducts money from invoices relatively quickly, even if the matter perhaps isn't yet very simple or very clear. That's definitely one selection point, and logistics for sure too, because all these requirements, how a box has to be labelled, SSCC label, what an advice note has to look like, how that goes into the system, EDI connection and all that, especially at the beginning these are really a few things you have to engage with very intensively.

Joubin Rahimi

Thanks for the insight into the Amazon part. But I'd like to go back to AI briefly. How much do you think you can get done with AI in that environment? So how much faster is it compared to ten years ago, when you think about the processes and so on? Just as a best guess to close out?

Michael Hartmann

That's a good question. I think there are areas where AI can lead to efficiency gains very quickly. I could imagine that across the whole finance area, where it's constantly about very clear figures, that's simply straightforward. Then there are other areas that have a lot to do with subjective taste and similar things. So do I like an image or not? Does the text sound fluent to me or not? Especially when we think about translations. Companies have for a relatively long time tried translating into other countries with native speakers. If you take a Spaniard who, for example, has already lived in Germany for 20 years, it's possible that he understands and speaks Spanish differently by now than someone who still lives in Madrid today. That means he would say in Spain, yes, that's grammatically and content-wise correct, but we wouldn't say it like that here. That can happen. That can happen with AI too. We see that, for example, when Amazon independently translates text into other languages. They can do that by now too. That means you just click the language up top and suddenly you have it in Swedish and Finnish and who knows what. There are also lots of funny examples where people say that wasn't good. But as I said, AI can definitely provide a significant boost in speed. I can't tell you exactly how many percent, but especially over the next few years I'd say something probably between 30 and 50 percent significantly.

Joubin Rahimi

Great, thanks for the assessment. Thanks for the time. And yes, then we'll still have a lovely evening here.

Michael Hartmann

Thanks again for the time, for chatting here on the sofa with us. The two of us are now going to go and have a quick drink.

Joubin Rahimi

We'll do that. And if you have any more questions, pin them below for us or ping Michael Hartmann directly. We look forward to a lively discussion, and also to the question, will AI destroy commerce marketplaces?

Michael Hartmann

You're saying, no, not that fast

Joubin Rahimi

I'm curious to see. Stay tuned. Thanks for listening and watching.