insights! #106: colourful sugar, clear data: how e-commerce works at Super Streusel

Joubin Rahimi

Brilliant that you're back for a new episode of insights! My name's Joubin, Joubin Rahimi, and today with me is Jan from Super Streusel. Hi Jan.

Jan Lühring

Morning.

Joubin Rahimi

Yes, exactly, Hamburg lads.

Jan Lühring

Exactly, exactly. Great.

Joubin Rahimi

Fellow Hamburg lads together. Great streusel. We met last year at OMR, and I think your story is amazing.

Jan Lühring

Cool.

Joubin Rahimi

Our daughter thinks you're great too. Not everyone knows what you do.

Jan Lühring

Right.

Joubin Rahimi

Now you've brought something along. Now we're doing a better QVC show here. What did you bring? Exactly.

Jan Lühring

This is the very first mix that exists. Super Streusel sells cake decorations. So everything that goes on top of the cake, and by now also baking mixes. So everything to do with baking. It's simple. I've brought along Confetti Parade. That's the very first mix and it's still one of the top 10, well top 5, across the whole year. And by now we have 120, 150 different mixes and we also have a Drip, a Super Drip in various colours. That's a kind of chocolate glaze. You warm it up in a microwave, in a water bath, and then it becomes liquid. Then I can paint with it, I can write a name. I can use our Super Baking Mat, which I've also brought along, our products always have a Super prefix, it's transparent and then I can... Would you like to open it? Yes. Now I'm curious. Now comes the product test here. Yes, I'm probably really bad at this.

Joubin Rahimi

I always tear open presents too. Then you can't reuse the gift wrap.

Jan Lühring

Yeah well, no one does anyway.

Jan Lühring

Exactly, that's the great baking mat. You just get yourself an iPad or a printed colouring template from us. We've got over 100 of those in our shop too. You can take a green drip, for example, then place the dino underneath, then paint a lovely dino, add the orange one too, then you've got the jagged bits, and then you take a few... We also have dino sprinkles, so you sprinkle those on top and then you've got a great cake topper, something you can stick into a muffin or into a dino cake. Yes.

Joubin Rahimi

That's cool. How much product do you have in total?

Jan Lühring

Between 300 and 400. Okay.

Joubin Rahimi

Do you sell in Germany?

Jan Lühring

We sell mainly in the DACH region and have our own online shop. We also have one on the Amazon Store with a reduced range, so the bestsellers run there. And in the Netherlands we have our own shop, and in Italy too. But in Italy we found out that it gets warm in summer, and we have chocolate balls that melt in the delivery van. So we scaled that back for now, and perhaps there's still an opportunity there with a clever solution.

Jan Lühring

But first-

Joubin Rahimi

Off to Norway.

Jan Lühring

Yes, exactly. That's a topic too. Brexit would also be super exciting. So the UK, Brexit has made it difficult, but those are roughly the regions we're active in.

Joubin Rahimi

So from the price point here?

Jan Lühring

Yes.

Joubin Rahimi

You're not... We won't find you at Aldi, but you sell through the online shop?

Jan Lühring

Exactly. €7.90 for a small tin, that's quite something, that's a high price point, definitely. In retail, I think it starts at around €1.49 for a small tin like that. That's quite a difference, but ours are really high-quality sprinkles, all from Europe, with chocolate balls in them, so you won't break your teeth on them. We've got some really lovely designs, so here, for instance, you've got a heart.

Joubin Rahimi

Yes, and in various sizes too.

Jan Lühring

Exactly, exactly.

Joubin Rahimi

Feedback from my daughter, who says: that's so cute, so sweet. And here at the front all the little ones: oh my God, the little figure.

Jan Lühring

Yes, exactly. We've got plenty of that. Yes, exactly.

Joubin Rahimi

This attention to detail. That's where it kicks off and she says: Oh, 8 euros, you're already allowed to pay with your pocket money. I'll do that. Then she says: Okay.

Jan Lühring

Would you have said something?

Jan Lühring

Better than Roblox.

Joubin Rahimi

Yes, that could be. Then she bakes with it. That's quite funny. She's twelve. Yes, perfect.

Jan Lühring

Good age within target group.

Joubin Rahimi

Yes. That's huge. Okay, high price point. Yes. What do you need a CDO for?

Jan Lühring

So that it works, too.

Joubin Rahimi

That's actually a nasty question, isn't it?

Jan Lühring

No. Exactly, I have been with Super Streusel for three years. Super Streusel is now in its seventh year. So it also worked for three years without me. But when I started, there was no clean tracking. There were no clean data feeds, because the old shop was not technologically capable of that at all. The first thing I say-

Joubin Rahimi

What did you have back then?

Jan Lühring

E-pages.

Joubin Rahimi

E-pages. Do you still remember those? Yes, actually my first shop was on e-pages. We sold board games there too, also for adults, just for adults. But also in the higher price segment. Right, okay.

Jan Lühring

For a case like that it's fine, E-Pages, but for … oh, that's borderline already.

Joubin Rahimi

Yes, that was 25 years ago for us.

Jan Lühring

Yes, exactly. But that developed further and you quickly hit the limits there. You also have to go into the code to have clean tracking. That wasn't possible at all. And the first thing I did as CDO, so to speak, was introduce Shopify.

Joubin Rahimi

Why Shopify?

Joubin Rahimi

Did you look at any others, or did you already know you'd go with this one? How was the process?

Jan Lühring

Yes, well the process took place in my head, but the idea was to keep everything as lean as possible, so as little as possible … I have no interest in managing servers myself, because there was no IT department, and I had no interest in bringing in big developers or an agency like that. And that's exactly what you get with a shop, if you look at other shop solutions, to avoid.

Joubin Rahimi

We also have Shopware, we have lots of great, satisfied Shopware customers.

Jan Lühring

Right, but they have a team behind them. And Super Streusel, well, with a small team, it was clear: okay, we need something simple that still scales, and that was Shopify.

Joubin Rahimi

Now, the answer isn't that unusual after all.

Joubin Rahimi

We also had someone from Teveo sitting here yesterday, going from 0 to 100 million on Shopify. That's not a scaling topic. Yes, in the course of. Also just relaxed for everyone, the discussion of how that's changing too. Personally I find the checkout really rubbish, I have to admit. But the question is: is that even relevant? If I had to choose and I were in your position now, I'd say: Ah, don't know. But that might be personally coloured, because

Jan Lühring

Yes, well you can of course-.

Jan Lühring

You make it a bit prettier. You can configure things, but ultimately checkout isn't … It has to work, it has to convert. I think once you're in checkout, most decisions of the buying process are already made, and it's just the last bit missing. And I think Shopify, with its millions of users and billions in revenue, already knows what they're doing.

Joubin Rahimi

Exactly, overall it won't be bad, but I need to think, I also buy from shops with a Shopify shop behind them, even though I don't like it. But I'm thinking, these are things, we have dwarf rabbits, and there are dwarf rabbit sets from omlet.de. And I'm just a customer. Not paid now, but that's what they do. A great product, I think, at a higher price point too. You just can't get it anywhere else.

Jan Lühring

I see, so you have to get through that?

Joubin Rahimi

Right, you always have to get through it, yes.

Jan Lühring

Several thousand customers already do that with us, it really adds up.

Jan Lühring

Well, it can't be that bad.

Joubin Rahimi

No, I think the value you have is, but you didn't know … How many employees do you have?

Jan Lühring

We're now around 60. We also still handle production and shipping ourselves, so we fill the products ourselves, meaning in the office we're around 20, 25.

Joubin Rahimi

And on the technical side? Can you also name a person? You talk to the tech team. Right, the whole team.

Jan Lühring

You're talking to all the tech, yes.

Joubin Rahimi

You're not very diverse though, are you.

Jan Lühring

Right, no, we aren't.

Joubin Rahimi

But the exciting part for you then is: how can you achieve a lot with very little staff deployment?

Jan Lühring

Exactly, that was the idea, which is also why it's Shopify. So that's why everything we do is designed to be simple. We're moving now, we need to get away from the old standard, and we're also expanding. What we're taking along in terms of IT is minimal. It's basically a backup, essentially, that we're taking with us, whereas others move entire server racks. We do that too, but a small one. But it's super lean.

Joubin Rahimi

Then you're also responsible for the vacuum cleaner, and so on.

Jan Lühring

No, luckily not. Luckily not.

Joubin Rahimi

He told me, as another CTO: I also have everything to do with connectors.

Jan Lühring

Yes, I'd say, wherever there's a screen attached.

Joubin Rahimi

Screen or also the robot. Yes, sure. Printer too, that's still there now and then. And the scanner too.

Jan Lühring

Yes, they don't have a screen.

Joubin Rahimi

Okay, that's what comes out for you then. Exactly, yes. That's nice. Interesting thing is our clients typically sit around three million revenue or higher, our sweet spot is more from 500 million. And there sometimes lightweight approach is missing too.

Jan Lühring

Yes, definitely.

Joubin Rahimi

I think that's something you can learn really well. How many million in revenue do you make?

Jan Lühring

We do not disclose our revenue, but we do say, for example, that in 2024 we passed 100,000 customers in our German shop, so dedicated customers. And that means, if you look at the average order value and a purchase frequency, you can roughly work that out.

Joubin Rahimi

That's what I wanted to ask too.

Jan Lühring

Yes, but what would you estimate an average order value to be? So this is now the small variant of a set. There's also a large one and that costs 10.90 euros. So the small one now costs, I believe, 5.90 or 6.90, and 7.90 euros baking means it costs 10 euros.

Joubin Rahimi

Well, my daughter isn't representative there, because from her pocket money, that's what she does. I quickly gave you €20 there.

Jan Lühring

Yes, well that …

Joubin Rahimi

Is that right?

Jan Lühring

No, that's too low. So our …

Joubin Rahimi

You said you have about three products coming in.

Jan Lühring

Yes, that's quick. So if you want to make a dinosaur cake, you need green and orange. That's already 20 euros. Then you need the baking mat for 10 euros, so you're already at-

Joubin Rahimi

The dinosaur cake, he says you need two colours for that too, right?

Jan Lühring

Yes, well on Instagram we do a lot of nice reels, a lot of nice content, a lot of inspiration.

Joubin Rahimi

You need three of those too.

Jan Lühring

Exactly. But eyes are also blue or black. Actually you also need black one. Then you need baking mat for colouring template and then you need dino mix to go with it. And if you're ordering anyway and free shipping from 50 euros, then you just add Christmas dino mix too. Because at Christmas everyone bakes somehow, everyone needs sprinkles then. And dino mix operates in that space.

Joubin Rahimi

Okay, wow. And how can you take that further digitally?

Jan Lühring

We now have …

Joubin Rahimi

So are there sets?

Jan Lühring

Yes, exactly. I have a funny anecdote about that too. Have I shared it before. Let me think whether I'll share it. Yes, I will.

Joubin Rahimi

Great. We're the first.

Jan Lühring

Yes, exactly. For example, we had a unicorn cake and made a unicorn set for it. That came to, I think, 75 euros. So then we thought: oh, 75 euros for a cake. Okay, let's make a set, give a discount on it. We made a set for 64 euros. That didn't work at all. And then we took the set back out again, out of that recipe page, and put the individual products back in, and it worked again. Meaning people, that moment of seeing, okay, this cake costs 64 euros, I won't do that. Whereas, if I choose the products myself, I say: I decide. That's my decision to add this dino party, this dino mix, into it. That worked again. So sometimes it's not the obvious things, like okay, we need to make this into a set because we're buying it all together, but rather let customers experience that sense of individualisation.

Jan Lühring

That's one such measure, but then standard included free from order value X, this free-gift-

Joubin Rahimi

Have you tried a decoy effect like that?

Jan Lühring

Yes.

Joubin Rahimi

Does that work for us? That's the set thing.

Jan Lühring

Exactly, that's ultimately it. Yes, that works. So if beforehand you have higher price, well now drips for example, they also come in large and small, so that you first... You can see it very strongly with our advent calendar. We have one costing 125 euros and one 45 euros. And you can see small one benefits very strongly from large one there.

Joubin Rahimi

What's the ratio like? Care to share? How often is the large one bought?

Jan Lühring

The relationship …

Joubin Rahimi

I share that too … We also have certain offers where we then have set-ups.

Jan Lühring

Yes, okay.

Joubin Rahimi

I share that too.

Jan Lühring

No, well the ratio, I think they're quite similar, in terms of unit numbers, but in revenue, due to the price point, quite different.

Joubin Rahimi

Okay, so you sell a fair amount based on price then? Yes, definitely. Funnily enough. We have service offerings where we say: okay, you have an Audit S, M & L. And whichever audit it is, it's always the starting offer — you get more than we're actually charging for. Upfront, because we want to win you over.

Jan Lühring

Yes, exactly.

Joubin Rahimi

That's why everything's a sexy offer. When we only had one, everyone was like, 5,000 euros, that's somehow a lot. But if we say: okay, you've got three, five and 15,000, no one buys the 15,000.

Jan Lühring

Yes.

Joubin Rahimi

But the added value tastes just as good, the 15er also has more things and many things that not everyone needs.

Jan Lühring

Yes.

Joubin Rahimi

But he has more than the small one too, and he says, no, it's too small for me, ends up with the M. 90% take M, the rest take S and no one takes L.

Jan Lühring

Exactly, it's about letting the customer decide, even when they have no real choice.

Joubin Rahimi

Yes, that's really funny. Now we said 5,000 was always expensive at the top, but where you have the choice?

Jan Lühring

Right.

Joubin Rahimi

That's much better feeling. I'd be happy to comment on how you find that. This is our UX audit.

Jan Lühring

I'm curious what things you meant, what the customer doesn't need. You just meant there's stuff in there – user survey.

Joubin Rahimi

Really to say, you have a user lab, go in with that, eye scan and so on. You can do a lot with data. For certain ones they say that's hugely important. If you say, you have not our customer, but I mean, ideal, if you have an EyeDrive with BMW. So whatever, if you do anything with a screen in a car, then it's hugely important: How do you look? How do you look while driving too? How long do you need? Completely different chat. Sometimes that's also good for managing directors and entrepreneurs who are far removed from understanding how a person simply looks at something. But for that you don't actually need the survey. Someone could just pull a statistic out of that, videos from it. Sometimes they need that themselves. That's more corporate. Often with 80% of work you can already follow the north star and that's perfectly fine, because problems are actually always much simpler.

Jan Lühring

Well, I can only recommend talking to the customers. I have no idea about baking.

Joubin Rahimi

Can't really say.

Jan Lühring

Yes, I can do that.

Joubin Rahimi

How cute these are.

Jan Lühring

Yes, they're cute. But it took me two years before I used the set for the first time.

Joubin Rahimi

Do you have children?

Jan Lühring

Yes, I have two children. How old? They're nine and eleven.

Joubin Rahimi

Yes, damn it, mate.

Jan Lühring

They're also the biggest super sprinkle fans and the children's hands regularly appear in our videos too.

Joubin Rahimi

Those are always great images, right?

Jan Lühring

Yes, exactly. What was I going to say? With the customer survey: the first thing I did was, we launched a survey and then approached customers, stratified them a bit and then randomly pulled out customers and talked to them. I then held conversations, around ten in the end, so essentially with the top orderers, a typical average orderer and a below-average orderer, I phoned each of them and tried to understand what the products were. Just as you learned that from your daughter, I had to learn it from the customer. I can only recommend doing that regularly too, occasionally saying: Look, here a customer complained, or left a glowing positive review, so you just call them and ask what exactly was going on there.

Joubin Rahimi

It's mechanical, and now here at OMR, AI is further along than last year, and that's actually a huge topic too.

Jan Lühring

So what are you doing there? Well, we've already done a mix with AI.

Joubin Rahimi

You have to say that too. In other words, what would be a cool mix?

Jan Lühring

Right, what's a cool mix, or which colours go together? It's trickier than it looks from outside, because you need a sensible balance. The colours have to be nice, they have to go together. That's what we did.

Joubin Rahimi

The motives behind it.

Jan Lühring

Exactly, that was a bestseller too. Last year we really had, the AI mix, that really took off, which is astonishing to see again and again for product development, that something else always comes along afterwards

Joubin Rahimi

Yes, for everyone.

Jan Lühring

Yes, exactly. I think we do what many do. We use it for product development, so quickly creating an image of an idea of what something could look like. We also run customer feedback through the AI and have it do a sentiment analysis, which is very cool. The names – this one here is called Confetti Parade. So every mix has a very individual name and that's actually a rather funny story for us too. The mixes then sit in our office in a bowl, and it says "I need a name" on it, and then you can write a name down on a list. And at the beginning I never won.

Jan Lühring

I always wanted my name to win. I let ChatGPT loose on it: here's our old name. Another five Easter mixes and I won. So I wrote it on by hand, my best ones there. And with that I actually won.

Joubin Rahimi

Dear 59 Super Streusel colleagues, now you know why Jan won.

Jan Lühring

They knew that beforehand too. I already mentioned that's possible. So it's huge everyday relief. But also in Meta, in ads creation like that, we use it a lot for idea generation. As basis, look, these are our visuals, these are our perspectives, approaches. Create me X ideas for that.

Joubin Rahimi

Netherlands, you said, are you going there?

Jan Lühring

Yes.

Joubin Rahimi

Do you consider whether someone speaks Dutch? How do you handle that, or do you also use AI for it?

Jan Lühring

Exactly, we tested that too. Well, we use, obviously, localisation has become super easy with ChatGPT.

Joubin Rahimi

Yes, sure. Or DeepL or …

Jan Lühring

Right. Yes, though ChatGPT still has a different approach. For example, right now it’s Communion and Confirmation season. We sent a newsletter to our German customers. Look, these are our things. And then we considered whether to send it to the Netherlands too, because the Netherlands has the highest proportion of atheists in the world. Does that make sense? ChatGPT helps then, you have … We sent it, but it helps to have someone there who, so to speak, “knows their stuff” and guides you on whether that’s the right approach or not.

Joubin Rahimi

Yes, cool. So for finding and translating? What do you use for that?

Jan Lühring

ChatGPT too, so our language. Let me just check if there's anything on this. Yes, right. It's quite varied, the language is too, and we're trying to get that into Dutch as well, which is why DeepL does that well too. We worked with that at the start too, but ChatGPT learns better as we keep working with it.

Joubin Rahimi

You'll notice, you just get on with it, right?

Jan Lühring

Exactly, yes.

Joubin Rahimi

That's, I think, also one of the secret sauces of successful companies, which is always difficult with larger ones, because there's a lot of talking there.

Jan Lühring

Yes, exactly.

Joubin Rahimi

Our parent company is called TIMETOACT. Not Time to talk, Time to think, but TIMETOACT. And actually it comes from: now is the time to act, that's really important, you have to do it, but you have to start somehow.

Jan Lühring

Yes, exactly. That's really the essence of Super Streusel, that we simply just do it. We also regularly go live in our webshop, doing a bit of live shopping, and in the TikTok shop too, and there are a few key points beforehand, but there's no script. That wouldn't work either. The two founders stand there in front of the camera and make the dinosaur cake, show how it's done. But if we scripted that beforehand somehow, we'd lose everything completely, so we just do it, and if something goes wrong, that's actually even good, because it entertains people.

Joubin Rahimi

Yeah, cool. You all find scripting lame here too, with the insights! format. We had that at the start as well, we said: I'd quite like a set of questions.

Jan Lühring

No, I actually prefer that too, you stay in conversation.

Joubin Rahimi

Also gets you a better result, because with a question catalogue you're fixing a structure for the other person. Now there are such different types of people, and one says: okay, I've got the structure, do I have to rattle through it now? And then think, well: what did I write down there? What do I need to say now? Whereas I don't stick to a script, and the first phase and the second are different, but it works out.

Jan Lühring

You skipped a question.

Joubin Rahimi

And we see that in the numbers too. Those that weren't scripted beforehand, i.e. with question catalogues, had noticeably fewer views. Drop-offs were also higher. That's why: "it doesn't feel authentic. Also the runtime of the video. Thank you very much. Thanks so much for the product presentation.

Jan Lühring

Gladly. I don't have a voucher code on me to hand out right now, but there's a trick for the coming weeks: if you buy a pack of Dickmann's at the supermarket, there's even a small voucher for Superstreu included.

Joubin Rahimi

Great. By when is that? So we can factor it in?

Jan Lühring

Yes, that's just retail, until it's sold out, but by mid-summer you should have something ready.

Joubin Rahimi

Then you know, chocolate marshmallows, Dickmanns, right?

Jan Lühring

Right.

Joubin Rahimi

But then, before we stop, does this work well? I mean, these are chocolate makers, they're not going to start baking cakes. Or are you just going to try it now?

Jan Lühring

We're trying that out. I think, we both have "Super" in our name, Super Dickmanns, Super Streusel. That's actually a perfect match. And I think the Dickmanns cake for children's birthdays, I don't know if you still remember it. We've given it a bit of a refresh now. It's going to be cool.

Joubin Rahimi

Do you have Super 3 as clothing too, then?

Jan Lühring

No, not yet.

Joubin Rahimi

Maybe there was another idea too.

Jan Lühring

Right. Thank you.

Joubin Rahimi

Jan, thank you. Thanks for the insights and continued great success.

Jan Lühring

Thanks, and thanks for the invitation.

Joubin Rahimi

Sure. And if you have questions, feel free to reach out to Jan or me directly, or leave a comment. We look forward to the exchange. And it would also be great feedback if there are other requests.

Jan Lühring

Yes, exactly.

Joubin Rahimi

Some carnival concert here.

Jan Lühring

Yes, we have plenty. Yes, good.

Joubin Rahimi

Thanks. Thank you.