insights! #108: Verena Schlüpmann on female power, future commerce & AI

Joubin Rahimi

And?

Verena Schlüpmann

And then he said: yes, that one's great and it's fine like that. And then he said: yes, I always take it in the evening. And then it was: but the magnesium you take in the evening isn't so great, because it might keep you awake instead, you need to take a different magnesium.

Joubin Rahimi

So not magnesium dicarbonate, but a different one, right? Magnesium glycinate?

Verena Schlüpmann

Magnesium glycinate, exactly. And then I said: Yes, but it's Saturday now. Right, then came the suggestion: Yes, shall I give you a few suggestions of companies and then I say: Yes, great. There are a few suggestions and then I say: Yes, but it's Saturday now. I won't get them that quickly now. Where do I get them in Munich? So, and then it immediately started bringing me up a Google Maps and showed me shops, including ones near pharmacies and so on, where I might get the product. Then of course I think: Okay, this has to change going forward, that e-commerce is much more about needs, about questions people ask today. And then it's no longer the online shop where I filter out green trousers, long, summer, for women, size 36. I believe this AI First approach is really a topic that's coming in the next few years.

Joubin Rahimi

A great example: when would you have said, what's that called again? Magnesium, glow…

Verena Schlüpmann

Magnesium bisglycinate

Joubin Rahimi

Magnesium bisglycinate. When would you have entered that? Actually probably not at all, because the story is quite different now. Yes, absolutely.

Verena Schlüpmann

Exactly, that's it, and I think retail is changing in that direction too. Because our children – looking at my son – he started out asking questions by googling. They used to type in single terms. He was already asking questions, and now with ChatGPT it's even more interactive. That's why I think much more will come from questions, from need, than from "I'm picking something out of a range of offers."

Joubin Rahimi

Yes, or even further. The question you asked yourself, how would you have answered it five years ago? Would you even have asked it at all?

Verena Schlüpmann

Probably not.

Joubin Rahimi

And now you ask yourself questions where before you'd have said you'd have needed a consultant for that.

Verena Schlüpmann

Yes, I would have gone to the doctor.

Joubin Rahimi

Right, but you don't actually go to the doctor for that, do you? Right.

Verena Schlüpmann

There's a whole different dynamic ahead, simply much more interaction. I could even imagine this AI agent just knowing everything about me and saying: Hey, Verena, K5's coming up soon, you need new shoes. So I believe there'll be much more interaction to come.

Joubin Rahimi

And I think that's the mega exciting thing for you too, because we all grew up with 2000 kicking off. Internet age, really cool. We only ever knew one direction, upward. And I'd bet – I don't know who'd bet against it, but I'd bet – that this will suddenly change completely, that you'll then have to think completely differently, and we as retailers will suddenly be back in the situation like Mediamarkt and Obi, where you go up to the salesperson and they have no idea, because you've already informed yourself beforehand, and now you see them a level further on.

Verena Schlüpmann

Yes, absolutely. That's also exciting bit, I think - who becomes the one, or what will platform be in future? Look at China - there isn't just one online shop there already. Doesn't even exist there. Platform already there. Where I'm not quite sure yet, will there still be this online shop in future the way we know it today? Or does it exist already, but positioned more in background, because upfront there's either a community, then influencers, creators, or big platforms, ChatGPT, connections to Shopify. Saw on LinkedIn already few images and supposed secrets, that this is really already happening. For this, classic interface, frontend, probably won't be so relevant any more.

Joubin Rahimi

You were in Vietnam recently, weren't you. So totally jealous, unfortunately couldn't make it. It was carnival. Sorry, I laughed too: Lars, is it carnival? Not quite, but no. For us, this carnival culture is a different topic. How did you experience Vietnam there, in that context? It's been a while again, hasn't it?

Verena Schlüpmann

No, not at all. I still feel that completely, because there … You have to say, Vietnam has a much younger average age. So you notice a completely different energy there straight away. I arrived, had been to Asia many times in years before, and I thought again, this is such an uplift, so much power.

Joubin Rahimi

They really want to, yeah. Exactly.

Verena Schlüpmann

And you notice that they've skipped a few cycles compared to what we've built. They're already much, much further along now. Sven had a really exciting panel there too, with Esther. They always have Western names, so of course that's not really her name.

Joubin Rahimi

So that we have a chance to remember and articulate it clearly.

Verena Schlüpmann

And she has an agency for AI influencers. So now you say, hey, why an agency? Well, they build AI influencers, but partly even market them too. That means there are AI influencers who make really, really serious money. Artificial people don't exist, but you can see it. Nowadays it still says AI influencer. Yeah, okay, you can see it all. We saw examples of this, unbelievable. There's literally a woman standing there doing her make-up, with her little mirror, her powder and everything, and it's all just AI. It's absolutely fascinating.

Joubin Rahimi

And the influencer who suddenly took off five, six, ten years ago, could now already be partly replaced again?

Verena Schlüpmann

Yes, absolutely. There's another opportunity here too, and we spoke about this with her, also for companies, because many large companies face the problem of who is actually the face of the company. The employee who leaves tomorrow, well, they're gone. There isn't always a founder or someone like that who can be the face. And through these AI influencers, for example, you can simply create an artificial face. That one never leaves.

Joubin Rahimi

He won't quit. Yes, I see it already, soon he'll give the insights! Afterwards, no more. Right, we need to stop now too. No. But if it's this fast-moving, or the influencers, or a micro-transaction like that, how can you build a scalable model?

Verena Schlüpmann

As a retailer? Yes. I believe that with all the automation, all the AI, an important part is of course also access to customers. And I believe you can scale – we all know from the last 20 years what the typical scaling measures were, going international and so on – but I believe that what will matter today is that you really have access to the customer and thereby also build a stable business. Because of what we've seen from enormous investments, VC money that went in here – are many of them still around? That's why I believe that access to customers, building communities and still using all the technologies is, in principle, what will be right in the future.

Joubin Rahimi

You're also building community at K5, right?

Verena Schlüpmann

Exactly, exactly. I think we've actually always had a community.

Joubin Rahimi

Ultimately – yes, existence build it up that way. But in end there was always community there, though it's become clearer to us too that happening only twice a year, two days a year, is simply not enough.

Verena Schlüpmann

New events come along quickly that might do this well too. And now we're coming at it a bit indirectly. Last year I launched my team Female Circle. The women's community is increasingly moving towards saying: yes, the K5 as a whole should also somehow become a community home.

Joubin Rahimi

And that one really, really lively. We had tickets left over here. You buy allotments after all, and some were left. And Mel — my wife, who's in your community — posted about it. It doesn't stand still.

Verena Schlüpmann

We're now almost 450 women in the group and the need was there, and you can see just how important this human interaction is, being able to ask a quick question and have an offer available. Fast interaction. That's still something different from writing to each other on LinkedIn. That's why I've become a big fan of it by now and will now put all my energy into building up the k5 as a whole.

Joubin Rahimi

You said something in the pre-call, because at first, this sounds exciting, that for K5 overall also means for men too, right? We get to take part again. But you told me in the pre-call we don't really need that so much, because we just have a beer, simply drink beer at the hotel bar and then we get to know people that way too. Yes. So maybe that's pigeonholing, I think, but I believe there's a lot more behind it.

Verena Schlüpmann

Yes, well I'm actually not a fan at all. I didn't resist long against doing this pure female topic, because I myself luckily never had an issue, in my professional life but also in my personal environment, with men-women thing. So thanks to Sven at this point. He's basically been my professional husband for 20 years, we've worked together. I never felt I had to prove myself there or anything, but ultimately we saw that women develop a different dynamic among themselves. It's more a safe space, it's something different here. And what I observe, because I've naturally been out and about a lot with men too, is that this natural thing of meeting up together after the event, women saw that much less. Either because they had to go home to their children or other obligations.

Joubin Rahimi

Or even if they don't have any.

Verena Schlüpmann

Or even if they don't have any, yes.

Verena Schlüpmann

It's somehow not …

Joubin Rahimi

Why is that so? Really, exactly.

Verena Schlüpmann

Honestly, I say I never got round to it because... My example that I always bring up is, say I'm organising a mixed dinner. Let's say I have a hundred seats. Then I have 80 men and 20 women. If I hold my dinner for 100 women, I have 100 women. So you explain it to me. I don't know. Is it really like that?

Joubin Rahimi

Yes, drop it in the comments below. That's really exciting, but I believe that's the experience we've had.

Verena Schlüpmann

A safe space emerges. Which, I think, is biologically between man and woman is probably simply something why that's somehow different then.

Joubin Rahimi

Because then it's not a safe space. I mean, if that's a safe space, then the other one isn't.

Verena Schlüpmann

Not so much, but we're working towards that being exactly the aim. And when that balances out - and that's the nicest thing, when it's equal and diverse and everything's represented - it does get a bit tricky for everyone.

Joubin Rahimi

We also have, with other partners like the Digital Vikings or Odoscope, who are also with you, we have what they call Behind Closed Doors. Also founded by Vikings, and it's always a very male-dominated event. It doesn't have to be that way at all. It's totally open, but we do notice a certain dynamic there. We find that people say: actually it's totally silly. You end up... You don't exclude half the population, but they're just not there. What would we need to do so that... It doesn't just affect us, it actually affects everyone. So we said, okay, this is simply a safe space for everyone.

Verena Schlüpmann

No, honestly, I hope it simply changes over time, the more normal it becomes. I have to say, networking is important. I mean, you can also, those who don't network, even if you're intuitive about it, go out, meet up. It can even be smaller groups. You don't always have to go straight to OMR with 70,000 people, but engaging in exchange is so valuable. It takes you so many steps forward when you do it, it's really important... You can always invite again. I've seen it again recently. I think Alex did it at his event.

Joubin Rahimi

Plus one. Exactly, plus one. A bit like ladies night, a bit like that.

Verena Schlüpmann

Men have to be there too, I suppose. Maybe at some point you need to add a wink and say: hey, always bring a woman along so it's really balanced. But yes, perhaps one more point on that. My impression is that it's also not yet quite the norm for women to invest in exactly these topics. So of course further training and networks, which also cost money. I think that's not quite there yet. It still needs a bit of time, but many are already noticing what kind of leverage this creates.

Joubin Rahimi

Are you sold out at K5?

Verena Schlüpmann

Actually the trade fair is sold out in terms of exhibitors and sponsors. There are still a few tickets left, though.

Joubin Rahimi

Well, whoever still wants to. I don't know when exactly. I know the tickets will be released, but … Yes, beforehand. We'll make sure it's released beforehand, of course.

Verena Schlüpmann

There are surely still a few tickets left, but we still have a limit. I say, maximum 5,000. We really don't want to grow beyond that. So …

Joubin Rahimi

Better be quick if it's already gone. But do you have a Female Circle then directly at K5 too, or?

Verena Schlüpmann

Right, on day two we'll also hold a separate meetup there. We're very curious how many will show up. I did a rough calculation and we said: „At K5 it's not quite fifty-fifty, but we're close. A few more men, but if that holds, we'd have almost two and a half thousand women. If they all come to the meetup, that's going to be tight.

Joubin Rahimi

Then everything's actually been achieved, really.

Verena Schlüpmann

Then achieved everything, but then we have small on-site problem, but we're totally pleased about that too, naturally bringing women together again. There'll also always be Female Launch in one of the halls anyway, where they can simply arrange meetups among themselves too. We're giving this space so it stays in future.

Joubin Rahimi

Thanks in any case for all the work you... It's not a business where you're raking in millions, but you do a lot for retail. So thanks for that first, and that's definitely worth applause. And when I then hear that ticket prices are so high because we also have to organise things. That simply costs a lot too.

Verena Schlüpmann

So I'll be starting that again soon too, a bit behind the scenes, just bringing people along a little. I think that's really underestimated. That's why you were … Well, I have huge respect for Philipp and his team here, what they've done with OMR, that's also an investment you have to make beforehand. You can't even imagine it.

Joubin Rahimi

And something can always come in. So something can come in short notice.

Verena Schlüpmann

We're prepared for anything here. We had no events, no revenue for two years. Then you really know this is a very fragile business model and, so to speak, not for the faint-hearted.

Joubin Rahimi

So thanks again for doing this for the community, or you all doing it for the community.

Verena Schlüpmann

Very much so. And if you still have questions, I believe you have your own podcast and are somewhat active in that way. Right. Then I also heard. But the question of why women then, in the evening, don't after all go to the bar or network, I'd like to discuss that too. We look forward to the comments and then we learn from them too. Thanks for being here.

Verena Schlüpmann

Thank you.